Comments on: Takes Fuel to Make Fuel http://domesticfuel.com/2006/02/27/takes-fuel-to-make-fuel/ Alternative Fuel News Sat, 11 Feb 2012 15:31:09 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Gary Dikkers http://domesticfuel.com/2006/02/27/takes-fuel-to-make-fuel/comment-page-1/#comment-110 Gary Dikkers Thu, 02 Mar 2006 01:55:11 +0000 http://domesticfuel.com/?p=233#comment-110 You realize of course the problem with turning corn stover into ethanol: It only increases the amount of nitrogen fertilizer (made from natural gas) needed to achieve a large corn yield. If you leave the stover in the field, it will decompose adding energy and nutrients back into the soil. If you take the stover out of the field, you deny the soil of those nutrients and have to add even more nitrogen fertilizer the next spring to replenish the soil and once again get a large yield out of that field. ---------------------------- JW said, "While we know it takes fuel to make ethanol, something that is never pointed out is that it also takes fuel to turn oil into petroleum." JW, I think most people are aware one must expend resources to make things -- including gasoline and diesel fuel. But there is a huge difference: Oil refineries can use their own product as the fuel to make gasoline, diesel, jet fuel, bunker oil, et al. Ethanol plants and corn farmers can't use ethanol as their source of energy to grow corn and make ethanol -- they are dependent on burning fossil fuels. (Primarily natural gas and diesel. If the corn ethanol couldn't use fossil fuels to power themselves, there would be no corn ethanol industry.) Cindy, Unlike corn-to-ethanol, a coal-to-methanol operation could also power itself and would be a true domestic fuel divorced of any reliance on imported fossil fuels. By the way, did you happen to see "60 Minutes" Sunday? They had a major piece on Montana coal and their Governor's vision for turning that into a clean burning fuel. (Made my day.) You realize of course the problem with turning corn stover into ethanol: It only increases the amount of nitrogen fertilizer (made from natural gas) needed to achieve a large corn yield.

If you leave the stover in the field, it will decompose adding energy and nutrients back into the soil. If you take the stover out of the field, you deny the soil of those nutrients and have to add even more nitrogen fertilizer the next spring to replenish the soil and once again get a large yield out of that field.

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JW said, “While we know it takes fuel to make ethanol, something that is never pointed out is that it also takes fuel to turn oil into petroleum.”

JW,

I think most people are aware one must expend resources to make things — including gasoline and diesel fuel.

But there is a huge difference: Oil refineries can use their own product as the fuel to make gasoline, diesel, jet fuel, bunker oil, et al. Ethanol plants and corn farmers can’t use ethanol as their source of energy to grow corn and make ethanol — they are dependent on burning fossil fuels. (Primarily natural gas and diesel. If the corn ethanol couldn’t use fossil fuels to power themselves, there would be no corn ethanol industry.)

Cindy,

Unlike corn-to-ethanol, a coal-to-methanol operation could also power itself and would be a true domestic fuel divorced of any reliance on imported fossil fuels.

By the way, did you happen to see “60 Minutes” Sunday? They had a major piece on Montana coal and their Governor’s vision for turning that into a clean burning fuel. (Made my day.)

]]> By: Cindy http://domesticfuel.com/2006/02/27/takes-fuel-to-make-fuel/comment-page-1/#comment-108 Cindy Tue, 28 Feb 2006 22:25:34 +0000 http://domesticfuel.com/?p=233#comment-108 Darn good point. It also takes fuel to dig coal out of the earth to make methanol, if you want that for an alternative. Darn good point. It also takes fuel to dig coal out of the earth to make methanol, if you want that for an alternative.

]]> By: JW http://domesticfuel.com/2006/02/27/takes-fuel-to-make-fuel/comment-page-1/#comment-107 JW Tue, 28 Feb 2006 19:35:57 +0000 http://domesticfuel.com/?p=233#comment-107 While we know it takes fuel to make ethanol, something that is never pointed out is that it also takes fuel to turn oil into petroleum. It takes energy to pump it out of the ground, often the crude has to be transported greater distances, and a lot of energy is used in the refining process. Oil proponents like to point out that bio-fuels require oil to be created, but the truth is bio-fuels require less oil to produce than oil itself. While we know it takes fuel to make ethanol, something that is never pointed out is that it also takes fuel to turn oil into petroleum. It takes energy to pump it out of the ground, often the crude has to be transported greater distances, and a lot of energy is used in the refining process. Oil proponents like to point out that bio-fuels require oil to be created, but the truth is bio-fuels require less oil to produce than oil itself.

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