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	<title>Comments on: Book Review &#8211; Plug-In Electric Vehicles</title>
	<atom:link href="http://domesticfuel.com/2009/05/22/book-review-plug-in-electric-vehicles/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://domesticfuel.com/2009/05/22/book-review-plug-in-electric-vehicles/</link>
	<description>Alternative Fuel News</description>
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		<title>By: &#8216;Clean Coal&#8217; for Energy? Not So Fast DOE. : Gas 2.0</title>
		<link>http://domesticfuel.com/2009/05/22/book-review-plug-in-electric-vehicles/comment-page-1/#comment-117035</link>
		<dc:creator>&#8216;Clean Coal&#8217; for Energy? Not So Fast DOE. : Gas 2.0</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 20:43:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://domesticfuel.com/?p=13031#comment-117035</guid>
		<description>[...] example, several authors in Plug-in Electric Vehicles, &#8220;If Plug-In Hybrid Electric Vehicles (PHEVs) are operated on coal electricity through [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] example, several authors in Plug-in Electric Vehicles, &#8220;If Plug-In Hybrid Electric Vehicles (PHEVs) are operated on coal electricity through [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Neil Dailey</title>
		<link>http://domesticfuel.com/2009/05/22/book-review-plug-in-electric-vehicles/comment-page-1/#comment-113655</link>
		<dc:creator>Neil Dailey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 May 2009 00:02:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://domesticfuel.com/?p=13031#comment-113655</guid>
		<description>I have been wondering why it seems that no one is stating the obvious. These cars do not even need many batteries if they simply generate their own power. I want to approach the car engineers and say, &quot;How many wheels on that car roll? Let me help you it&#039;s four. That&#039;s four opportunities to generate power, since anything that turns can be harnessed for power generation.&quot;
So what&#039;s the deal?  Do they think they can continue to treat us as idiots in this country?  I hope not.  It&#039;s my hope that we all start to think and produce what we need on our own. It&#039;s going to have to be grassroots because they simply don&#039;t want anyone thinking any on their own any more!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have been wondering why it seems that no one is stating the obvious. These cars do not even need many batteries if they simply generate their own power. I want to approach the car engineers and say, &#8220;How many wheels on that car roll? Let me help you it&#8217;s four. That&#8217;s four opportunities to generate power, since anything that turns can be harnessed for power generation.&#8221;<br />
So what&#8217;s the deal?  Do they think they can continue to treat us as idiots in this country?  I hope not.  It&#8217;s my hope that we all start to think and produce what we need on our own. It&#8217;s going to have to be grassroots because they simply don&#8217;t want anyone thinking any on their own any more!</p>
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		<title>By: John Spradley</title>
		<link>http://domesticfuel.com/2009/05/22/book-review-plug-in-electric-vehicles/comment-page-1/#comment-113654</link>
		<dc:creator>John Spradley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 May 2009 22:14:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://domesticfuel.com/?p=13031#comment-113654</guid>
		<description>Global warming is just a political distraction from the real problem:
Global Pollution. It&#039;s killing our kids now! I cannot afford a liquid-fueled car.  My 28 year old EV gets 50 miles on a day&#039;s sunshine on my roof-top PV. If you want the truth about EVs ask those who drive them. www.evalbum.com/1749</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Global warming is just a political distraction from the real problem:<br />
Global Pollution. It&#8217;s killing our kids now! I cannot afford a liquid-fueled car.  My 28 year old EV gets 50 miles on a day&#8217;s sunshine on my roof-top PV. If you want the truth about EVs ask those who drive them. <a href="http://www.evalbum.com/1749" rel="nofollow">http://www.evalbum.com/1749</a></p>
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		<title>By: Chip Daigle</title>
		<link>http://domesticfuel.com/2009/05/22/book-review-plug-in-electric-vehicles/comment-page-1/#comment-113652</link>
		<dc:creator>Chip Daigle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 May 2009 20:13:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://domesticfuel.com/?p=13031#comment-113652</guid>
		<description>First Generation Hybrids are a joke.  They are simply lighter than other cars and thats why they get good mpg.  FFV&#039;s using Ethanol are truely a significant advance in becoming a greener country if you believe in man made Global Warming and all that crap.  FFV&#039;s also makes up stronger country by making us more flexible in dealing with spikes in Gasoline prices because of some contrive &quot;crisis&quot; in the Mid East.  Plug-In Hybrids are unproven.  It&#039;s time for the Greenie Weenies to Put up or Shut up.  I say let all the greenie weenies on the East and West Coast and in all the Big Polluted cities across the country buy $40K Plug-Ins and test out the new Green Economy for the rest of the Nation.  I actually hope they work not because of &quot;Global Warming&quot; but because it will make our country stronger.  As for me, I am going with the FFV&#039;s the next time I buy a car.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First Generation Hybrids are a joke.  They are simply lighter than other cars and thats why they get good mpg.  FFV&#8217;s using Ethanol are truely a significant advance in becoming a greener country if you believe in man made Global Warming and all that crap.  FFV&#8217;s also makes up stronger country by making us more flexible in dealing with spikes in Gasoline prices because of some contrive &#8220;crisis&#8221; in the Mid East.  Plug-In Hybrids are unproven.  It&#8217;s time for the Greenie Weenies to Put up or Shut up.  I say let all the greenie weenies on the East and West Coast and in all the Big Polluted cities across the country buy $40K Plug-Ins and test out the new Green Economy for the rest of the Nation.  I actually hope they work not because of &#8220;Global Warming&#8221; but because it will make our country stronger.  As for me, I am going with the FFV&#8217;s the next time I buy a car.</p>
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		<title>By: Larry Gales</title>
		<link>http://domesticfuel.com/2009/05/22/book-review-plug-in-electric-vehicles/comment-page-1/#comment-113651</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry Gales</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 May 2009 18:51:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://domesticfuel.com/?p=13031#comment-113651</guid>
		<description>10 years ago, Daimler was all set to produce a battery powered
Mercedes with a 120 mile range for the California market.  The battery
used was far superior to the lead-acid and NiMH batteries used in the
EV-1 about the same time and would have changed the automotive world.
Unfortunately, the merger with Chrysler killed that project.

The somewhat improved version of that battery, the sodium nickel
chloride battery (better known as the ZEBRA battery) and its nearly
identical cousin, the sodium iron chloride battery, are roughly equal
to the best of the safe lithium batteries of today in terms of
durability and long life, safety, and energy density (120 WH/KG for
the nickel chloride version and 109 WH/KG for the iron chloride
version, although the theoretical energy densities are far higher, so
there is still room for improvement).  By the way, this battery is
*not* experimental: for more than two years 2-9 ton delivery vans from
Smith Electric and Modec in England powered by ZEBRA batteries have
been rolling off the production lines.

But both batteries are far superior to all other batteries in terms of
all-weather operation and are virtually unaffected by the most extreme
climates anywhere on earth, and in mass production would be radically
less expensive: about $120/KWH and less than $100/KWH for the two
batteries, respectively.  This compares with about $330/KWH for the
lowest projected cost I have seen for mass produced safe lithium
batteries.

And the sodium iron chloride battery is far superior to all of other
batteries in terms of resource availability and environmental and
political friendliness: it is mainly composed of a large amount of
salt and a moderate amount of iron, has no toxic material, and the
resources are abundant nearly everywhere, unlike lithium which is
concentrated in a few 3rd world countries and where there is not
enough economically available lithium for the world&#039;s current
automotive fleet, let alone the future.

The disadvantages of these batteries, lower power density which
controls acceleration, the current lack of ultra-rapid charging, and
the desirability of plugging it in a least once/week to avoid
freezing, are either easily overcome or tolerable.

Why the world&#039;s automotive industry continues to pour all its efforts
in batteries that are 3-4 time more expensive, and whose resource
supply is unsustainable, is a major mystery to me.

  -- Larry</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>10 years ago, Daimler was all set to produce a battery powered<br />
Mercedes with a 120 mile range for the California market.  The battery<br />
used was far superior to the lead-acid and NiMH batteries used in the<br />
EV-1 about the same time and would have changed the automotive world.<br />
Unfortunately, the merger with Chrysler killed that project.</p>
<p>The somewhat improved version of that battery, the sodium nickel<br />
chloride battery (better known as the ZEBRA battery) and its nearly<br />
identical cousin, the sodium iron chloride battery, are roughly equal<br />
to the best of the safe lithium batteries of today in terms of<br />
durability and long life, safety, and energy density (120 WH/KG for<br />
the nickel chloride version and 109 WH/KG for the iron chloride<br />
version, although the theoretical energy densities are far higher, so<br />
there is still room for improvement).  By the way, this battery is<br />
*not* experimental: for more than two years 2-9 ton delivery vans from<br />
Smith Electric and Modec in England powered by ZEBRA batteries have<br />
been rolling off the production lines.</p>
<p>But both batteries are far superior to all other batteries in terms of<br />
all-weather operation and are virtually unaffected by the most extreme<br />
climates anywhere on earth, and in mass production would be radically<br />
less expensive: about $120/KWH and less than $100/KWH for the two<br />
batteries, respectively.  This compares with about $330/KWH for the<br />
lowest projected cost I have seen for mass produced safe lithium<br />
batteries.</p>
<p>And the sodium iron chloride battery is far superior to all of other<br />
batteries in terms of resource availability and environmental and<br />
political friendliness: it is mainly composed of a large amount of<br />
salt and a moderate amount of iron, has no toxic material, and the<br />
resources are abundant nearly everywhere, unlike lithium which is<br />
concentrated in a few 3rd world countries and where there is not<br />
enough economically available lithium for the world&#8217;s current<br />
automotive fleet, let alone the future.</p>
<p>The disadvantages of these batteries, lower power density which<br />
controls acceleration, the current lack of ultra-rapid charging, and<br />
the desirability of plugging it in a least once/week to avoid<br />
freezing, are either easily overcome or tolerable.</p>
<p>Why the world&#8217;s automotive industry continues to pour all its efforts<br />
in batteries that are 3-4 time more expensive, and whose resource<br />
supply is unsustainable, is a major mystery to me.</p>
<p>  &#8212; Larry</p>
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		<title>By: Rocketmaker10000</title>
		<link>http://domesticfuel.com/2009/05/22/book-review-plug-in-electric-vehicles/comment-page-1/#comment-113650</link>
		<dc:creator>Rocketmaker10000</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 May 2009 18:37:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://domesticfuel.com/?p=13031#comment-113650</guid>
		<description>I agree that poor people won&#039;t be able to afford these but that doesn&#039;t mean we shouldn&#039;t start selling them and getting the battery prices lower.  Once you have an EV you want to drive it all the time.  Economies of scale only happen when when a market exists.  I convert existing cars to total electric and people that own them love them.  They never buy gas again except for their gas cars which everyone keeps a gas car.  EVs will just start to reduce our dependence on foreign oil and make our air cleaner....  Two worthy goals I think.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that poor people won&#8217;t be able to afford these but that doesn&#8217;t mean we shouldn&#8217;t start selling them and getting the battery prices lower.  Once you have an EV you want to drive it all the time.  Economies of scale only happen when when a market exists.  I convert existing cars to total electric and people that own them love them.  They never buy gas again except for their gas cars which everyone keeps a gas car.  EVs will just start to reduce our dependence on foreign oil and make our air cleaner&#8230;.  Two worthy goals I think.</p>
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		<title>By: Hugh E Webber</title>
		<link>http://domesticfuel.com/2009/05/22/book-review-plug-in-electric-vehicles/comment-page-1/#comment-113648</link>
		<dc:creator>Hugh E Webber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 May 2009 17:04:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://domesticfuel.com/?p=13031#comment-113648</guid>
		<description>Dsuupr:

Half-a-dozen EV makers plan to sell highway-capable EVs for $25,000 or less within the next few years. Mechanically quite simple, EVs will eventually sell for less than equivalent gas-burners; EVs also need far less maintenance and cost much less to fuel.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dsuupr:</p>
<p>Half-a-dozen EV makers plan to sell highway-capable EVs for $25,000 or less within the next few years. Mechanically quite simple, EVs will eventually sell for less than equivalent gas-burners; EVs also need far less maintenance and cost much less to fuel.</p>
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		<title>By: Dsuupr</title>
		<link>http://domesticfuel.com/2009/05/22/book-review-plug-in-electric-vehicles/comment-page-1/#comment-113627</link>
		<dc:creator>Dsuupr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 May 2009 20:07:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://domesticfuel.com/?p=13031#comment-113627</guid>
		<description>Sometimes what seems like a great answer misses the overall need of society.  I have yet to see the answer to my one key question regarding EV vehicles.  

How is someone with low to middle/moderate income supposed to afford one?  

Let&#039;s put this in perspective.  Most middle to lower income families rely on a 10+ year old vehicle with well over 100,000 miles.  If it was an EV vehicle that means they would have to pay for a new battery pack, which at best would cost $2000 to $5000 (future dreams of low battery costs).  The vehicles these people drive are not even worth that much.  There is no way they can afford to replace those batteries.  Some say we can &quot;lease&quot; the batteries to help with costs.  When someone doesn&#039;t have the credit or income to purchase a new(er) vehicle, they don&#039;t have the credit or income to lease batteries.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sometimes what seems like a great answer misses the overall need of society.  I have yet to see the answer to my one key question regarding EV vehicles.  </p>
<p>How is someone with low to middle/moderate income supposed to afford one?  </p>
<p>Let&#8217;s put this in perspective.  Most middle to lower income families rely on a 10+ year old vehicle with well over 100,000 miles.  If it was an EV vehicle that means they would have to pay for a new battery pack, which at best would cost $2000 to $5000 (future dreams of low battery costs).  The vehicles these people drive are not even worth that much.  There is no way they can afford to replace those batteries.  Some say we can &#8220;lease&#8221; the batteries to help with costs.  When someone doesn&#8217;t have the credit or income to purchase a new(er) vehicle, they don&#8217;t have the credit or income to lease batteries.</p>
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		<title>By: Fred</title>
		<link>http://domesticfuel.com/2009/05/22/book-review-plug-in-electric-vehicles/comment-page-1/#comment-113620</link>
		<dc:creator>Fred</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 May 2009 16:19:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://domesticfuel.com/?p=13031#comment-113620</guid>
		<description>The only cons with an EV is their batteries: charge life and physical life and what to do with them when they eventually die.
Oil companies of course what us to keep using foreign oil so they can make their millions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The only cons with an EV is their batteries: charge life and physical life and what to do with them when they eventually die.<br />
Oil companies of course what us to keep using foreign oil so they can make their millions.</p>
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