Comments on: A Few Minutes with ‘The Father of Ethanol’ http://domesticfuel.com/2009/08/18/a-few-minutes-with-the-father-of-ethanol/ Alternative Fuel News Mon, 22 Mar 2010 00:15:25 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Andrzej http://domesticfuel.com/2009/08/18/a-few-minutes-with-the-father-of-ethanol/comment-page-1/#comment-116028 Andrzej Fri, 21 Aug 2009 16:10:30 +0000 http://domesticfuel.com/?p=16320#comment-116028 Flee, I beg to differ. Just read your post: "is gaining", "can be [utilized]", "I expect in near future", "will improve", "will supplant" etc. I guess the cold fusion also continues to improve and can be expected to be useful in near future. But you are talking about projections and wishes for the future, whereas I am talking cold, hard numbers for today. Once the corn yield grows to 300 bpa and ethanol producers will be using 3 gallons of water (as Jetty wrote), I will modify my numbers accordingly. Right now the average yield is 155 bpa, and water usage adds to whopping 126 gallons per gallon of ethanol. Please, note that I am an ardent supporter of non-fossil fuels. Even the corn ethanol has a net <i>negative</i> carbon dioxide emission, and that is just great. However, corn ethanol (and I am not talking sugar cane ethanol, algae ethanol, cellulosic, etc, but just corn ethanol produced in US right now) has a long way to go. Flee, I beg to differ. Just read your post: “is gaining”, “can be [utilized]“, “I expect in near future”, “will improve”, “will supplant” etc. I guess the cold fusion also continues to improve and can be expected to be useful in near future. But you are talking about projections and wishes for the future, whereas I am talking cold, hard numbers for today. Once the corn yield grows to 300 bpa and ethanol producers will be using 3 gallons of water (as Jetty wrote), I will modify my numbers accordingly. Right now the average yield is 155 bpa, and water usage adds to whopping 126 gallons per gallon of ethanol.

Please, note that I am an ardent supporter of non-fossil fuels. Even the corn ethanol has a net negative carbon dioxide emission, and that is just great. However, corn ethanol (and I am not talking sugar cane ethanol, algae ethanol, cellulosic, etc, but just corn ethanol produced in US right now) has a long way to go.

]]> By: Jetty http://domesticfuel.com/2009/08/18/a-few-minutes-with-the-father-of-ethanol/comment-page-1/#comment-115923 Jetty Thu, 20 Aug 2009 13:22:38 +0000 http://domesticfuel.com/?p=16320#comment-115923 Projected corn yields are 300 bpa by 2030 so corn is a viable feedstock for significant production of ethanol. Water usage has gone under 3 gallons per gallon of ethanol. Many studies use irrigation numbers added to the water usage, however only about 5% of corn produced is irrigated. Cellolosic is right around the corner, but I think people are underestimating the American farmer. Corn ethanol will produce 30+billion gallon a year in the future and still feed the world. Projected corn yields are 300 bpa by 2030 so corn is a viable feedstock for significant production of ethanol. Water usage has gone under 3 gallons per gallon of ethanol. Many studies use irrigation numbers added to the water usage, however only about 5% of corn produced is irrigated. Cellolosic is right around the corner, but I think people are underestimating the American farmer. Corn ethanol will produce 30+billion gallon a year in the future and still feed the world.

]]> By: flee http://domesticfuel.com/2009/08/18/a-few-minutes-with-the-father-of-ethanol/comment-page-1/#comment-115914 flee Thu, 20 Aug 2009 00:33:13 +0000 http://domesticfuel.com/?p=16320#comment-115914 Your a tad late Andrzej, corn ethanol is an alternative fuel or maybe it should be called a blended fuel. Kudos to Minnesota, they sure on top of it. Wish Michigan would give them more competition. We need the jobs. I especially like the clean burn qualities and high octane. My engine runs better. I do check fuel mileage carefully and do my own extensive auto repair. No complaints here, other than availability and hassle of splash blending E-85 for non flex fuel autos. I would prefer 30% ethanol for my vehicles including mowers and chain saws. It's interesting to stay on top of ethanol technology. So much going on with IC engines, biology, and processes. Corn a very capable ethanol feed stock. I used to think like Andrzej, until realized how GM engineered seed have improved yields. Also, the co-products of the ethanol process very valuable. They waste nothing. DDGs is gaining reputation of fine animal feed. The water utilized can be waste grey water sewage and recycled back to crops. A huge advantage of gain for ethanol (most forget), the grain can be stored and processed at later time. Many energy crops must be processed quickly upon harvest or quickly deteriorate quality. You could store a fully years supply of corn. Also, some of these ethanol plants have ability to run different grains or starch feed stocks. Some are co-producing some cellulose ethanol i.e. corn cobs. I expect in near future most ethanol processing plants will be relatively small, located close to feed stocks and be flexible to run ethanol and co-products from a variety of process during the harvest cycle. Auto manufacturers are putting more flex fuel cars in lineup. Engine technology continues to exploit and improve performance of high ethanol blends. Fuel mileage will improve substancially. A convergence of technology for hybrids, ethanol, and IC engine efficiency along with small lighter cars will push up fleet average mileage. Ethanol production will continue to increase, battery technology will supplant some fuels. So, would guess in not to distant future 30% of our fuel supply from ethanol. If you throw natural gas in mix....very easy to project 30%. Your a tad late Andrzej, corn ethanol is an alternative fuel or maybe it should be called a blended fuel. Kudos to Minnesota, they sure on top of it. Wish Michigan would give them more competition. We need the jobs.

I especially like the clean burn qualities and high octane. My engine runs better. I do check fuel mileage carefully and do my own extensive auto repair. No complaints here, other than availability and hassle of splash blending E-85 for non flex fuel autos. I would prefer 30% ethanol for my vehicles including mowers and chain saws.

It’s interesting to stay on top of ethanol technology. So much going on with IC engines, biology, and processes. Corn a very capable ethanol feed stock. I used to think like Andrzej, until realized how GM engineered seed have improved yields. Also, the co-products of the ethanol process very valuable. They waste nothing. DDGs is gaining reputation of fine animal feed. The water utilized can be waste grey water sewage and recycled back to crops.

A huge advantage of gain for ethanol (most forget), the grain can be stored and processed at later time. Many energy crops must be processed quickly upon harvest or quickly deteriorate quality. You could store a fully years supply of corn. Also, some of these ethanol plants have ability to run different grains or starch feed stocks. Some are co-producing some cellulose ethanol i.e. corn cobs. I expect in near future most ethanol processing plants will be relatively small, located close to feed stocks and be flexible to run ethanol and co-products from a variety of process during the harvest cycle.

Auto manufacturers are putting more flex fuel cars in lineup. Engine technology continues to exploit and improve performance of high ethanol blends. Fuel mileage will improve substancially. A convergence of technology for hybrids, ethanol, and IC engine efficiency along with small lighter cars will push up fleet average mileage. Ethanol production will continue to increase, battery technology will supplant some fuels. So, would guess in not to distant future 30% of our fuel supply from ethanol. If you throw natural gas in mix….very easy to project 30%.

]]> By: Andrzej http://domesticfuel.com/2009/08/18/a-few-minutes-with-the-father-of-ethanol/comment-page-1/#comment-115905 Andrzej Wed, 19 Aug 2009 18:49:37 +0000 http://domesticfuel.com/?p=16320#comment-115905 While ethanol from corn offers some advantages - such as less pollution - it's production is simply not sustainable. The life cycle analysis (LCA) of ethanol corn, as you can find on e.g., http://envimpact.org/node/141 (<a href="http://envimpact.org/node/141" rel="nofollow">Ethanol, from corn</a>) shows that it requires way too much water, land, and other resources to be viable alternative energy source. While ethanol from corn offers some advantages – such as less pollution – it’s production is simply not sustainable. The life cycle analysis (LCA) of ethanol corn, as you can find on e.g., http://envimpact.org/node/141 (Ethanol, from corn) shows that it requires way too much water, land, and other resources to be viable alternative energy source.

]]>